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Standard names: *Ocean surface elevation without the contributions of ocean tides nor atmospheric pressure forcing (invert barometer)* #37
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Thank you for your proposal. These terms will be added to the cfeditor (http://cfeditor.ceda.ac.uk/proposals/1) shortly. Your proposal will then be reviewed and commented on by the community and Standard Names moderator. |
Hi Aurore, I have added the name to the editor, you can view it here: I will wait for others to comment on the suitability of the name, although I do think if the term Best regards, |
Hi @abiardeau, As there don't appear to be any new comments since last month, I'd like to suggest we make the change from Please let me know what you think! Best, |
Dear Aurore and Ellie If we can, I think we should relate our sea-level standard names to the sea-level terminology adopted by the IPCC WG1 AR6, which is defined a paper I wrote with a large group of colleagues (Gregory et al., 2019, https://doi.org/10.1007/s10712-019-09525-z), with the aim of trying to clarify some difficult concepts. In the standard name you have proposed ( I agree with Ellie that we should spell out "IB". The term for IB in the 2019 paper is "inverse barometer". However, that's jargon, really, and it might be better for a standard name to say what it means i.e. the depression of SSH by atmospheric pressure. It's described in entry N7, on p11 of the PDF of our paper. (Unfortunately the hyperlinks in the online version don't all work.) Best wishes Jonathan |
Hi Jonathan and Aurore, Thank you for linking the paper @JonathanGregory. This is indeed a useful reference in this case. The description of sea surface height given in this paper is as follows: "The sea-surface height is the geodetic height of the sea surface above the reference ellipsoid (a negative value if below)." The description of the inverse barometer effect in the paper is, if I interpreted correctly: "The time-dependent hydrostatic depression of the sea surface by atmospheric pressure variations, also called inverted barometer". Would you like to revise this definition for use in the phrasebank @JonathanGregory ? I was able to find literature using the terms 'invert barometer', 'inverted barometer' and 'inverse barometer'. We should decide sensibly at this stage which is most suitable for use and be consistent in its application in future additions to the standard names table. Best, |
I would also add that Jonathan's paper mentions a relevant term "IB-corrected sea-surface height", which seems to have a similar, though not identical, meaning to the proposed name |
Dear Ellie and Jonathan, Thanks a lot for your relevant feedback ! |
Dear Aurore @abiardeau Thanks for replying, Aurore. I am still not quite clear what you mean. In your original description, you describe this as a contribution to variability, which I suppose would be a statistic of some sort, but the Although "inverse barometer" and "inverted barometer" (I haven't read "invert barometer" myself) are commonly used jargon, following the aims of CF standard names I feel we should say something self-explanatory. That was done with Best wishes Jonathan |
You are right I was not very clear. |
Please could you describe how you obtain this quantity, from measurements and subsequent calculations? At the moment I don't know what you mean, I'm sorry to say. |
Hi Jonathan, I must confess that how the different variables are referenced vertically is not so clear to me. I am going to look for informations. in the mean time, here's some draft documentation to make things clearer: Merged_ocean_levels_DESCRIPTION.docx Thanks for your help, I am sure it will help us to come with a clearer product. |
Hi @JonathanGregory , did you ahave a look to the document ? Perhaps it makes things clearer. Is that one "non_tidal_non_invert_barometer_elevation_of_sea_surface_height_above_geoid" ok ? Cheers, |
Dear Stéphane If I understand the document correctly, I think this quantity is the elevation the sea surface would have wrt geoid (not an anomaly in SSH, but an actual value) if the air pressure and tide were "average". Equivalently, it is the sum of ocean dynamic sea level (SSH above geoid for "average" air pressure i.e. IB-corrected, and not including tides) and global mean sea level rise (GMSLR, thermosteric + barystatic NB the document says "barysteric" for "barystatic"). In the document, the quantity is 3 + 4 + 5. The geoid can be defined in a time-dependent way, with the choice of geopotential defining the geoid varying such that the volume enclosed between the geoid and the sea floor is always equal to the time-mean volume of sea water in the ocean. With that definition, the effect of GMSLR is included in the geoid, and your quantity is simply ocean dynamic sea level. But since 3 (global-mean [thermo]steric) and 4 (barystatic) are not included in 5, I suppose the ocean model ("GLO12 physical ocean system") has a geoid which is constant in the terrestrial reference frame. If all the above is correct (which it might well not be!) I suggest calling this quantity Expressing it as what it doesn't include I would call it What do you think? Best wishes Jonathan |
Hi Jonathan. can we reprocess / resume the whole standard name variable set in this issue ? Because we need a certain consistency to ensure that users don't get lost. 5/ sea surface height from GLO12, mainly discussed in this issue. What I am afraid with the first definition is as this quantity doesn't contain the steric and barystatic contribution, is this still correct to talk about global mean sea level change though ? 1/ tides: are these ok ? 2/ invert barometer 3/ steric "global_average_steric_sea_level_change" ; ok ? 4/ barystatic: "global_average_sea_level_change_due to change in ocean mass" ; ok ? Sum/ total sea level We just wanted to call it "sea_surface_height_above_geoid_" in the first place ; but I think it would be better to have "total" in the name. Can we work on a new standard name ? Best wishes and thanks again for all this help ! |
up @JonathanGregory :) |
I have not forgotten, Stéphane @slawchune. I was on leave last week. Jonathan |
Hello Stéphane @slawchune and Aurore @abiardeau ,
Is your comment in the above post meant as a summary of several active proposals by Aurore in the editor, i.e. issues #37 (this one), #288, #287, #286, and #314? I am trying to keep up with recording/tracking these names in the CF editor. In particular, we should take care that the "complementary" names in issues #285 ( Best regards, |
Dear Stéphane As I wrote in my last contribution, I was assuming you meant 3 + 4 + 5 in your document, because you explicitly excluded just 1 + 2 from it. In your latest, you say "this quantity doesn't contain the steric [3] and barystatic [4] contribution." That is, you mean 5 alone, ocean dynamic sea level. That quantity is defined in this paper as "The local height of the sea surface above the geoid, with the inverse barometer correction applied," i.e. having removed the effect of air pressure variation, and "It is determined jointly by ocean density and circulation," i.e. it does not include tide. We ought to have said so explicitly in the paper. In the paper, we define the geoid as time-varying such that global-mean ocean dynamic sea level is zero, but the geoid in your model is a different one, which is fixed in the terrestrial reference frame. Does the model assume (as all climate models do) that the geoid and the reference ellipsoid are coincident, disregarding the actual fact that the Earth is not an ellipsoid? If it doesn't distinguish between those surfaces, I think we could call 5 either I'll write separately about the other ones. Best wishes Jonathan |
Dear Stéphane Thanks for your patience. Regarding quantity 5 (the subject of this issue), on further reflection I tend to prefer I agree with you and Ellie on the need for consistency in SL standard names. In addition, to support CMIP7 OMIP, I would like to propose some more. I will open another issue about SL names in general, with links to the ones Aurore opened. I believe that we have discussed all your quantities now except the tides. They're in #40 and #41, but we could talk about them here. I have a couple of questions.
Best wishes Jonathan |
Hi Jonathan, thank you very much for having work on this !
for the tide, the reference is again the geoid. ; do you think we can go with : Load tide : In FES2014 it is describe as the effect of ocean tide on the earth floor : "load tide" the effect on the solid Earth of tidally generated change in the distribution of the weight of the ocean" then https://www.aviso.altimetry.fr/en/data/products/auxiliary-products/global-tide-fes/description-fes2014.html for the total sea level, can we come up with a name ? Thanks again and sorry for all those uncertainties ! |
Dear Stéphane, I have changed your "quantity 5" name from this issue as discussed, the entry in the CF editor can be viewed here: I removed the reference to "non_tidal_non_ib_elevation" as this no longer forms part of the name and added the following suggested phrases: I hope this is acceptable. Best regards, |
Dear Stéphane I think we've agreed that your model has a time-independent geoid, and assumes that the reference ellipsoid and geoid are identical. In that case, I think the "total" is The ocean-tide component is a term in your sum. It's a tidal height wrt a tidal reference surface (a "tidal datum"). The tidal component is zero when the tide coincides with the datum. Does the ocean-tide term have a long-term mean of zero? Does the long-term mean of the "total" SSH in a steady climate (no global mean sea level change) coincide with mean sea level? If both are Yes, I believe it means the ocean tide component is When I google "load tide", I get a lot of references to laundry detergent. Trying the more specific "ocean load tide" instead, I get the impression that "load tide" isn't a very common term, because actually it's not a tide, as you suggest above - that's convenient jargon, perhaps, because its effect is similar to a tide. Hence I think the answer to my earlier question is that it's not included in the Earth tide. I propose that the "load tide" should be called Finally (this time!), with apologies, I've changed my mind again about your quantity 5. I now think it might really be What is the global mean of quantity 5? Is it constant and zero - if not, how does it behave? Best wishes Jonathan |
Dear Jonathan, I see what you mean for the total. Le'ts go for
Thanks for all this help ! |
Dear Stéphane Thanks for your collaboration, which has clarified several things for me as well. I think all your and Aurore's @abiardeau issues have been dealt with now, provided Best wishes Jonathan |
Dear Jonathan, I think |
Dear Stéphane Yes, I think we agree, if I have understood you correctly. Suppose SSH wrt reference ellipsoid varied only because of the ocean tide, with no changes occurring in ocean mass, properties, circulation, geopotential or fluxes from the atmosphere. In that case, Best wishes Jonathan |
Hello Jonathan , Finally, here's what we're going to put in the documentation, which is the fruit of our discussions. We're really behind schedule on delivering this documentation, so I'll have to freeze it for now. Is everything ok on your side? Thanks again for all your help in clarifying my ideas. The standard names are writen Stéphane Dataset : cmems_mod_glo_phy_anfc_merged-sl_PT1H-I (MOL) Contains all the variables. total_sea_level [meter] : invert_barometer [meter] sea_surface_height [meter] ocean_tide [meter] tide_loading [meter] global_mean_steric_variation [meter] global_mean_mass_volume_variation [meter] |
I think that's all fine, Stéphane. Thanks again for working on it. I'm going to propose elsewhere some other changes, but I have been waiting for our discussions to conclude before continuing with them. They include changing |
Thanks for everything Jonathan :) |
Dear @slawchune, Apologies for the delay in getting these names processed and accepted; the CF editor has been experiencing some minor technical issues in the last week which we're troubleshooting at the moment. Once it is fully functional we will be able to mark these as accepted and they will be released in the next update of the standard names table which is planned this summer. Just one more question: should your name be added as a contributing author to these proposals? Best wishes, |
Both Aurore and Stéphane should be added to the list of standard name contributors. |
Dear Aurore @abiardeau and Stéphane @slawchune, Thank you very much for your patience in working through these proposed names.
I believe, from reading this issue, that the "total sea level" variable was agreed to be described by the name Best regards, |
Dear Ellie @efisher008 Re
I think we established that the geoid and the reference ellipsoid are not distinguished in the ocean model in question (like in climate OGCMs in general), so they could use either. They would be equivalent. In the real world, they are different. Best wishes Jonathan |
Dear Jonathan @JonathanGregory, Thank you for your reply. As there is no current need to distinguish these with a new standard name, shall we stick with the existing standard name Best, |
sea_surface_height_above_geoid is also an existing standard name, so they have the choice. :-)
|
I see, that is correct @JonathanGregory - thanks for pointing it out! In this case, all new proposed names have now been accepted and will be published in v86 of the standard names table, planned for this summer. Thanks again to @abiardeau and @slawchune for your proposals. I will also mark the original issues for this suite of names as accepted. Best wishes, |
Thank you so much Jonathan and Ellie ! |
This has been published in v86 of the Standard Names Table (released 5 September 2024). |
Hello,
I am Aurore BIARDEAU from Mercator Ocean international, working for Copernicus Marine service.
Date : 07-03-2024
We are in the process of implementing a new variable in the Copernicus Marine service, and we would be happy to have your feedback on our proposal :
non_tidal_non_ib_elevation_of_sea_surface_height
The definition is inspired by standard_name
non_tidal_elevation_of_sea_surface_height
whose definition corresponds to sea_surface_height + invert_barometer.I can provide more information from my expert colleagues if needed,
Kind regards,
Aurore
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