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Thank you for your proposal for the future of the Fluent organization. I understand the background and the situation, but I have a question about the way to change the primary project.
First of all, we should clarify what the I think there are the following two points.
As for
I think it's better to start by considering improvements that would add Fluent Bit information as much as Fluentd, rather than simply reversing the current state. |
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@daipom thanks for your feedback. Actually there is no harm for Fluentd when doing this change, and is all positive for Fluent Bit. What we are proposing is just to formalize where the industry is going. All major cloud providers already migrated and many other companies as well. Adding Fluent Bit as an independent project is a step backward, we are with CNCF since the early years and it was a ton of work (years) to get the ecosystem in, initially as incubated and then handling the process for graduation; starting as a new project means to start all over again, which I think there is no value for the project. As mentioned the goal is to switch the focus at a CNCF level for exposure. |
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It may be reasonable to focus on Fluent Bit in fluent organization to recommend. As a result, it may be changed like:
But not changed listed in:
If you mean "the seat of the project page in CNCF" is listing in Fluent Bit as observability https://www.cncf.io/projects/ Thus, it is inappropriate to change the primary - subproject relationship in a project just to avoid formal procedures especially not good for Fluent Bit itself. (I'm worried about it gives third-party bad impressions) (Personally, I felt that it's time to revisit project hierarchy not the umbrella under Fluentd, but also to make Fluent Bit as an another top project in CNCF. e.g like helm graduated from kubernetes project.) FYI: https://helm.sh/docs/community/history/
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The primary intention is not to skip formal procedures, the project is already there, but switch focus to reality. I cannot remember how many people migrated out of Fluentd because of performance needs without them knowing that Fluent Bit is there. On the other side, Fluent Bit is deployed a million times per month. This is very confusing for CNCF community in general. I would consider Helm a different case, since that's a totally different project, here Fluent Bit is kind of the next-gen of Fluent. |
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FYI: I have shared this feedback with the CNCF TOC and they have provided good guidance. I will create another discussion with a different approach to continue there. |
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I have opened the new discussion here: I am closing this discussion since the original idea (this discussion) won't move forward based on feedback from maintainers and CNCF. |
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Dear Fluent community,
the following is an open discussion about the upcoming proposal to switch Fluent Bit as the primary project in the Fluent organization for CNCF. Feel free to jump in and share your thoughts. After feedback and adjustments, we will run an open voting process. This is the first step.
Introduction
The Fluent organization has been pivotal in addressing the complexities of Telemetry Data management across infrastructure by enabling reliable collection, processing, and delivery, while integrating seamlessly with other ecosystems. Since its inception, Fluentd, our original primary project, has significantly contributed to this mission. Established in 2011 and donated to the Cloud Native Computing Foundation (CNCF) in 2016, Fluentd achieved CNCF graduation in 2019. This milestone marked its widespread adoption by leading cloud providers such as AWS, Google, and Microsoft, solidifying its role in enterprise logging.
Evolution of Technology and User Demands
As technology and user expectations have evolved, so has the demand for high-performance solutions capable of handling diverse types of Telemetry data, Fluent Bit, created in 2015, emerged as a response to these needs. Designed to be lightweight and efficient, Fluent Bit offers enhanced performance and the capability to manage not only logs but also metrics and traces. This adaptability has led to its increased adoption, making it a preferred choice for many users, and has positioned it at the forefront of innovation within our organization.
Proposal for Organizational Change
Given the strategic and technological shift towards Fluent Bit, there is a strong case for reevaluating its position within the Fluent organization. This proposal suggests considering Fluent Bit as the parent project due to its broader capabilities and active development focus. Consequently, Fluentd would transition to a role that reflects its current state of being in a maintenance phase, acknowledging its continued importance but recognizing the shift in innovation and user focus towards Fluent Bit.
Next steps proposed
F.A.Q
Why Fluent Bit ?
Adoption and Performance: With over 13 billion downloads in containerized environments alone, Fluent Bit demonstrates high adoption rates and proven performance. This extensive usage underscores its reliability and efficiency in handling telemetry data at scale.
Cloud Provider Endorsement: Major cloud providers, including AWS, Google, and Microsoft, have transitioned from using Fluentd to Fluent Bit for their logging and telemetry needs. This shift is largely due to Fluent Bit's superior performance, lower resource consumption, and its ability to handle high-volume data more efficiently.
Versatility in Data Handling: Unlike Fluentd, which primarily focuses on log data, Fluent Bit is designed to manage multiple types of telemetry data, including logs, metrics, and traces. This versatility makes Fluent Bit more suited to current and future demands of complex data pipelines and observability frameworks.
Active Development and Innovation: Fluent Bit enjoys a vibrant development community that regularly introduces new features and enhancements. This active innovation pipeline has kept the project at the cutting edge, adapting quickly to new technologies and user requirements.
What's next for Fluentd ?
Fluentd is still widely deployed, and our organization's goal is to maintain it for the long term. If some company or individual desires to contribute innovation in the project in the future, it is totally possible. Releases and development will not stop.
Are there any License changes involve ?
NO. Both, Fluentd and Fluent are open source projects hosted by the Cloud Native Computing Foundation under the terms of the Apache v2 License. We are vendor-neutral projects.
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