[1817] Incorrect player order at the end of the game

[playzone-1]

game https://18xx.games/game/237962

The game shows player playzone as last, however there are six players that went bankrupt before. This is possibly because the bankrupt players value sits at $0, where playzone has $-2321 because of shorts and the game sees it as worse, which it's not (if the game continued, it'd be just next bankruptcy in line).

[ddaybell]

I do not think this is a bug. The player order is based on the players' values at the time the game ended. When this game ended, play zone's value was negative. Bankrupt players, in this game, have no assets. But, they also have no liabilities. Thus their value is correctly zero. The fact that had the game continued playzone might have gone bankrupt isn't relevant, because the game did not continue, it ended at a point when play zone's value was negative. In my view, this issue should be closed.

[playzone-1]

I don't think that is correct @ddaybell.

Rules at 7.4 state "If the player has sold all the shares possible, and still can’t make payment, he is bankrupt and removed from the game. The game continues without the player." Then 8 state "Each player’s total wealth is the value of his stock, at current prices, minus the value of short shares, at current prices, plus his cash on hand. Company assets and private companies count for nothing. The richest player wins.".

The game does not explicitly state how to rank players, only how to determine winners (most money) and losers (went bankrupt). That flows to me pretty clearly that players that are eliminated from the game cannot be ranked higher than the ones who did survive.

Note that strictly speaking a bankrupt player value should be NaN not 0. The rules do not define bankruptcy as clearing all debts and resetting to 0, just a pure elimination. With the absence of that, it must have been negative at some point, otherwise they wouldn't bankrupt.

[ddaybell]

This isn't a rules issue, this is a website issue with how the site chooses to calculate scores and determine player order. The site has chosen to calculate player order based on their value at the moment the game ends. As far as I know that's true of every game on the site. It so happens that 1817 and family have the possibility for scores to be negative. So does the 1822 family. In those cases, players sometimes end the game with a negative score. It also happens that in some games players go bankrupt. In some games, such as 1830, bankrupt players can still have assets and can even win the game. In 1817, bankrupt players have zero assets and zero liabilities. Zero is greater than a negative score, so the site ranks bankrupt players ahead of negative score players. That's not a bug, at least in my view. It's not my call, of course, that's up to the site admins. But in my view this is expected behavior, not a bug.

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On Wed, Jul 29, 2026, 3:39 PM playzone-1 ***@***.***> wrote: *playzone-1* left a comment (tobymao/18xx#12820) <#12820 (comment)> I don't think that is correct @ddaybell <https://github.com/ddaybell>. Rules at 7.4 state "If the player has sold all the shares possible, and still can’t make payment, he is bankrupt and removed from the game. The game continues without the player." Then 8 state "Each player’s total wealth is the value of his stock, at current prices, minus the value of short shares, at current prices, plus his cash on hand. Company assets and private companies count for nothing. The richest player wins.". The game does not explicitly state how to rank players, only how to determine winners (most money) and losers (went bankrupt). That flows to me pretty clearly that players that are eliminated from the game cannot be ranked higher than the ones who did survive. Note that strictly speaking a bankrupt player value should be NaN not 0. The rules do not define bankruptcy as clearing all debts and resetting to 0, just a pure elimination. With the absence of that, it must have been negative at some point, otherwise they wouldn't bankrupt. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#12820?email_source=notifications&email_token=AW6A3BRL4PNRBDRY22HL4OL5HJ4I5A5CNFSNUABFM5UWIORPF5TWS5BNNB2WEL2JONZXKZKDN5WW2ZLOOQXTKMJSGQYDSNRXGA42M4TFMFZW63VHNVSW45DJN5XKKZLWMVXHJLDGN5XXIZLSL5RWY2LDNM#issuecomment-5124096709>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AW6A3BV44HGPIRQKJTSDBQ35HJ4I5AVCNFSNUABFKJSXA33TNF2G64TZHMYTQOBRGY2TIMJSHNEXG43VMU5TIOJZGEZTSOJRGYZKC5QC> . Triage notifications, keep track of coding agent tasks and review pull requests on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS <https://github.com/notifications/mobile/ios/AW6A3BU46BUUG7IQM2WZNX35HJ4I5A5CNFSNUABFM5UWIORPF5TWS5BNNB2WEL2JONZXKZKDN5WW2ZLOOQXTKMJSGQYDSNRXGA42M4TFMFZW63VHNVSW45DJN5XKKZLWMVXHJKTGN5XXIZLSL5UW64Y> and Android <https://github.com/notifications/mobile/android/AW6A3BWYUHPWI7WEO63SQKD5HJ4I5A5CNFSNUABFM5UWIORPF5TWS5BNNB2WEL2JONZXKZKDN5WW2ZLOOQXTKMJSGQYDSNRXGA42M4TFMFZW63VHNVSW45DJN5XKKZLWMVXHJLTGN5XXIZLSL5QW4ZDSN5UWI>. Download it today! You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[playzone-1]

this is a website issue with how the site chooses to calculate scores and determine player order

Exactly. And I argue the way it chose it is incorrect. It's a natural thing to assume bankrupt player has a value of 0, if I was coding it, I'd likely do the same. But it looks like a coding bug, not an intended behaviour with games where negative values are possible.

In 1817, bankrupt players have zero assets and zero liabilities.

This has no grounding in rules. If your value is 0, you are not bankrupt.

[philcampeau]

This is an interesting question. I think for the most part, it doesn't really matter, but I could imagine a wildly edge-case game where everyone bankrupts except one player, and that player currently has a negative score. The way it's displayed now, the winning player would show up last.

I think I've got a simple solution for this. We'll see what the other site devs think.